One thing I've noticed in my time since earning my degree is that many recruiters and headhunters do not understand the distinction between Electrical Engineering and Electronics Engineering. As a DeVry graduate, by degree is in Electronics Engineering, and I've found that I've had to explain the difference; that Electrical Engineering deals in moving and manipulating power, while Electronics Engineering deals in moving and manipulating information.

How often have other Engineers seen this confusion in industry? I'd understand if we were still using vacuum tubes to crunch numbers, but silicon chips are everywhere, and digital logic is the primary way of controlling machines now, why do the recruiters not seem to know that one type of EET would be more comfortable with linesman's pliers and the other type prefers a low-wattage soldering iron?

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I agree with your sentiment Kevin, and by your closing Latin, I could have implied concent by sitting quietly, I felt the need to speak up in assent.

Also to comment on all the Latin quotes being used, allow my to add my favorite one:

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes. (Translates to "If you can read this, you are over-educated." I prefer the implied 'smirk' in the phrase over the probably more appropriate quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur "Whatever is said in latin seems profound.")

Kevin Cooper said:
I have to reply to Larry Helenius even though this thread is old. I wonder how many people have suffered through night school while working full time and raising a family, taking the “easy” route because they wanted the advancement that they saw those, whose parents had funded the “hard” route, making. I have seen it many times- engineers who were total incompetents, who had taken the “hard” route, rocket through the ranks on the backs of those who took the “easy” route. This, of course, is not a blanket statement about engineers- I have also known many brilliant individuals. I think it might be time to climb down out of the clouds and take a hard dose of reality -and perhaps a trim to the ego may also be warranted. – There is a growing problem with the education in this country- but ensuring that people with a degree that ends with “EE” are suitably compensated, is not the solution.
qui tacet consentire videtur- Also Latin
I guess some would consider me being an individual who took the "easy" route. Let me assure you, those of you who think it is easy to attend night school full time to earn a BSEET while working fulltime (50+hrs/week) and supporting a family need a serious reality check. It is possible to do this, but I can honestly say it has been quite a struggle for me. I am now in my last year of school and my weekdays are pretty harsh and tiresome. In fact, I am lucky to get 3-4 hrs of sleep a night. Not to mention the fact I spend my weekends studying day and night. That’s right, day and night, no sleep on Saturday nights. So can someone tell me how this is the easy route? Honestly, the easy route for me would have been to stay in college when I graduated from high school.

Let me be clear, I totally agree with a lot of you who suggest earning the BSEE at a state school. However, some of us do not have the luxury to put off work to go to school. In my experience, I have learned the true value of education. Your education is what you make of it; the institution provides the materials and path. Whether you choose to study the material and really learn it is completely up to you. The material in most BSEE and BSEET classes is similar in content; the only thing that differs is what areas you cover in the class.

For example, I am currently taking a physics course at my local junior college and there are 4 BSEE students in the class with me. Some of the theory and material I am currently taking for my DSP class is very hard for them to understand. In fact, they couldn’t believe I am learning this at Devry. At one point one of the students asked me how he could transfer to Devry. I advised him to stay at the U of A because graduating from the U of A is more prestigious and in most cases will look better on a resume.

The point is, if you can afford it and you have the time to attend a state school, don’t choose the BSEET path. But if you can’t, then choose the BSEET path. Just make sure you attend a university that has a BSEET program that is TAC of ABET accredited.


Kevin Cooper said:
I have to reply to Larry Helenius even though this thread is old. I wonder how many people have suffered through night school while working full time and raising a family, taking the “easy” route because they wanted the advancement that they saw those, whose parents had funded the “hard” route, making. I have seen it many times- engineers who were total incompetents, who had taken the “hard” route, rocket through the ranks on the backs of those who took the “easy” route. This, of course, is not a blanket statement about engineers- I have also known many brilliant individuals. I think it might be time to climb down out of the clouds and take a hard dose of reality -and perhaps a trim to the ego may also be warranted. – There is a growing problem with the education in this country- but ensuring that people with a degree that ends with “EE” are suitably compensated, is not the solution.
qui tacet consentire videtur- Also Latin
Nicely put Juan. I would like to add one more thing- It is the person who makes the Engineer- not the degree. There have been many extraordinary people who have notably (and others, not-so-noticeably) advanced science and engineering without the obvious benefits of a formal education. For instance- Da Vinci didn't have an "E" at the end of his title, yet no one would dare say that he wasn’t an engineer.
All this talk about BSEE vs BSEET is ridiculous...I'm a BSEET I recieved my degree at OIT.As a teaching university focused on education,Oregon Institute of Technology earned the No. 4 spot among Public Baccalaureate Colleges in the West and the 10th spot among Baccalaureate Colleges in the West in the 2008 edition of “America's Best Colleges” by U.S. News & World Report, the nation's leading source of service journalism and news. The university also ranked 10th in the Western ranking of the Top Baccalaureate Colleges. The exclusive rankings were published in the magazine's August 27, 2007 issue.OIT is accredited by the Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities. OIT’s Engineering & Technology Programs are ABET accredited.OIT provided me with a solid preparation for graduate school.The Bachelor of Science program in Electronics at OIT was exceptional ! The outstanding education I received at OIT-Portland enabled me to obtain an engineering position at IBM and helped me to be admitted to a prestigious Masters of Science program in Electrical Engineering at Massachusetts Institute of Technology.Yes I will admit, the fact that I recieved a MSEE from MIT has certainly helped my carrer, But the point...I'm trying to make is that a BSEET graduate can acheive anything that a BSEE graduate can.I have always made great money...I have always had a deep love for the craft...I can't reveal what projects we are currently working on, but I can certainly tell you that we have BSEET's working alongside BSEE's...as a department head...I care about results not titles...And I guarantee you...thats all the private sector wants from high priced American Engineers."RESULTS" not titles. I completely agree with Kevin Cooper, when he says "It is the person who makes the Engineer- not the degree. " Oh and Larry Helenius needs to get some help with his ego problem.I almost feel obligated to write something in Latin...I hope its correct...I haven't practiced my Latin in years... hahaha... - This is for all the BSEET's out there. "faber est quisque fortunae suae" Translation - every man is architect of his own fortune. God Bless...
i agree with u but i too want to tell diffrence in two in simple manner.

"when current flows from a conductor called electrical and when it flows from semiconductor it called electronics" where current may be in the form of data,frames, signal or any other form.
I'm going to agree with Robert Newman. I attended three EET programs (BYU Idaho, BYU Provo, CWU) and graduated from two (BYU-I ASEET & CWU BSEET). While attending the first two universities/colleges I had 3 summer jobs working as an assistant production manager and an assistant engineer.

As an assistant production manager the EEs at the plant were impressed by how much I knew of the newer technology that they were trying to get up to speed on. They were not impressed by the assistant EE they had hired for the summer who couldn't tell if he was looking at a transformer or not. (he was standing between two shelves of them). On the next job I was the "kid" that could run the latest CAD software, design the lighting loads, cable tray layouts, building grounding systems and produce the schematics for the control systems for a $7M dollar steel blast furnace. My design notes were used to train future asst. Engineers the next year. May I note here that most of these design areas are not covered in most EET or EE program. This was a matter of taking those principles taught, applying learning and study habits developed and a drive to work hard, succeed and finish the project.

While at BYU in Provo I had a roommate who was a EE. He was the first to extol how sub-par the EET program was. Later he had a chance to look at our text books and found that he liked them better for most topics. Of course when I was able to tutor him in Op Amps and Digital Design, the "holier than thou" disappeared. In fact he enjoyed discussing the courses with me, especially when he could take a look at our lab books which were quite a bit more involved. He was able to save his grade in the Op Amps lab due to hours we spent together. From what I hear he got pretty good at lab work and design and now works for an aerospace group.

Before I finally finished my Bachelors degree at Central Washington University(5 years later), I went to many job fairs, HR managers and got back many letters of rejection saying "your not a EE". I was finally hired as a EE after graduation. During my first two years with this company I designed the controls, developed the control software, took it through testing and trials and was involved in the commissioning of the first three machines. I have been with the same company for over 15 years.

I think like Robert and others have said on here, the degrees are pretty much the same, the difference is the person and how they chose to apply it. Over my years I have seen the pendulum swing both ways, from couldn't get a job due to the "letter(s) of the law", or watching the tittle of Engineer given so easily to someone who had no right to design equipment (that put others at risk). When it came to jobs and interviews, I found that if I could get past HR and talk to the EE manager or lead EE I was a lot more successful.

Right now it appears that the EET programs are being absorbed into the EE programs in most universities. Perhaps, in an era of consolidation that is needed. However I think the EE programs need both types, those who are fearless on the paper and those who are fearless to take this new technology and push it to the edge. Is either program better? I don't think so. Both have been taught by professors who have EE degrees (MS and PHD), taught out of the same books and usually covering identical material.

Today, if I was to look to interview a candidate for a EE position, I would accept applications from EET and EE. My final decision would be based on the interview. What has he learned? What has he accomplished? Can he get the job done?
Can he come up with his own concepts? Can he take it to final release?
I would guess its a combination of the terminology being extremely similar, and also that a lot of people really don't understand the EE profession, and just how nuanced it can be. I assume the same goes for electronics engineering?
I agree. It's definitely the person who makes the engineer. I know a lot of people who went to "lesser schools" who were much better workers, more intuitive, etc than people who skated through schools like Stanford and others...

Kevin Cooper said:
Nicely put Juan. I would like to add one more thing- It is the person who makes the Engineer- not the degree. There have been many extraordinary people who have notably (and others, not-so-noticeably) advanced science and engineering without the obvious benefits of a formal education. For instance- Da Vinci didn't have an "E" at the end of his title, yet no one would dare say that he wasn’t an engineer.

I carry a BSEET.  First of all, the BSEET (depending on where you get it from) is a good degree that is very close to a BSEE.  Academically, the main differences that I saw was that I was only required to go up to Calculus II for math, and the engineering courses consisted of classroom lecture for the theoretical part, and a supplemental lab class for hands on experience to put theory into actual practice (this could be anything from building circuits, digital logic, programming microcontrollers/microprocessors, etc).  Other than this, I was not required to take calculus based physics, although physics and chemistry classes were still required.  The 2 less math classes were replaced with 2 more elective engineering technology courses.  My BSEET used most of the same textbooks as confirmed by a BSEE graduate from Kansas State Univ.   My core electronics courses were also taught by Phd engineering professors.  Basically, the BSEE core classes taught mostly theory, and they took 2 more math courses.  The BSEET taught half theory, and half hands-on and we still took the university level hard-science classes and the C programming class as well.

 

The BSEET came about because it was recognized that the majority of jobs that engineers held mainly involved engineering with existing technology, and that's if they were doing any design work at all.  So the BSEET was developed as a more practical degree to match the majority of jobs held by engineers in industry, with the intention of the BSEET graduate becoming an engineer.   The BSEE is intended more for research and developing brand new technology.   But most jobs do not involve re-inventing the wheel.

 

So is it a good idea to get a BSEET?  My answer:  NO.   Why?   I am actually employed as a product engineer for a large corporation, and the majority of my career has been in test engineering where I have performed low level hardware design and mostly software development.   But for some reason, Human Resources at various companies and hiring managers with BSEE's seem to think that the BSEET degree is someone that went to tech school to play with oscilloscopes and didn't take any hard-science classes either.   It's a miracle I'm even still employed as an "engineer", and all the people I work with have regular EE degrees.  I've had comments made to me over the years by other "Rolla grads" that I had just a "tech" degree.   A department I was in at my company was merged another department, and my new manager of whom had a BSEE, told me to my face during a performance review that my BSEET was not a real engineering degree and that I could never become a Senior Engineer with it.  I pointed out that the department had Computer Science degree holders working in Senior & Principle Engineering positions.  He said nothing after I pointed that out.  It became apparant that he just flat out hated the degree, so I changed depts to become a product engineer.  I've even seen job recs. open within the department I was in that asked for a BSEE or even a Physics Degree.  They considered a Physics Degree higher and more qualified than a BSEET.  But one would figure that with a BSEET, and 12 + years of experience, that they would at least have considered me the equivelant of a new grad BSEE.  This manager was still reluctant to even consider that.

 

My experience is that the bias against the BSEET is so bad, that some employers will almost consider a person with no degree above the BSEET, a non-degreed hobbyist above a BSEET, or they will consider a person of whom didn't complete a BSEE degree because they dropped out of college over a BSEET that graduated. 

 

After the anguish and frustration I faced over the years, I went back to school and got an MBA.  I still work as an "engineer" where I am paid approximately $10K less than what I should be, and my progress has been slowed dramatically.  I should have been a Senior Engineer years ago, but I've had road blocks thrown in my way pretty much on purpose.   My overall goal is to get out of engineering and do something with my MBA degree, or go into management somewhere within the technology field.   All said and done, my BSEET was about as challenging to achieve as a BSEE, but with much less the rewards of doing so.  It was a mistake in getting one, even though it's no cake walk in doing so.   Most people just do not understand the degree, they hate the degree, and they will tell you to your face that you are suppose to be a technician.  This shows that they do not understand the field of engineering, but since the grand majority of everyone has the BSEE, it's too hard to fight the bias because there is no one around to explain the truth that the BSEET is very close to the BSEE, it's intended for design & engineering with existing technology, and it's just as challenging to obtain academically.......which makes the case for definitely getting the BSEE if you can.

 

Avoid the BSEET because the bias you will face is ridiculous in relation to what is academically achieved through it.   That's just my opinion and it's based upon my 13 years of experience in the field of technology.

 

 

 

 

And another thought, is the visibility factor.   If a BSEET degree holder is working at a company with other BSEEs, and the BSEET guy makes a mistake on something, he will receive much more visibility for that mistake.  His coworkers will say, "Oh, he has a BSEET.  That's what ya get for hiring a BSEET".    But yet, I've seen BSEE guys make horrible costly $$ mistakes, and they receive very little if any attention for doing so.   We had a BSEE guy burn up a $250,000 centrifuge a few years ago.  Destroyed it.  Hardly a word was said about it and he's even been promoted to a principle position recently.   Since I have a BSEET, had I done the same thing, they would have removed me immeditely from my position.   That's another example of the bias you will face with a BSEET.

Wow!  This is indeed a fascinating topic that hits home.  I also have a BSEET degree and my company is about to do a "Reduction in Force" (RIF).  This means that some employees will have to be let go due to the poor economy.  And, of course my position holds the least seniority, even though I have 16 years with the company.

There was a glimmer of hope as it was also announced that my company would be hiring a person for another department in another title.  Only problem is that this new position requires an EE degree.  So, no luck for me.

I recently joined this forum to see if I could network and perhaps find alternative job leads.  I hope I did the right thing.  Although, I still have hope that the RIF never happens as I do have a sizeable retirement built up.

 

Well, anyway, wish me luck.  And, if anyone out there has an EE degree and is interested in working for the USPS.  Just drop me a line.  I know of an opening.

 

Sid723

Have you tried applying for that EE position or are you self-selecting yourself out because you 'only' have an BSEET?  16 years work experience should show them that you're as capable as, if not better than, an BSEE at doing the job.  Also remember than an 'EE position' Only describes the job as Electrical (or Electronic) Engineering, unless the job description specifically states 'Must have a BSEE (no BSEET allowed)' there's nothing stopping you from applying.

Isidro (Sid) Murillo said:

Wow!  This is indeed a fascinating topic that hits home.  I also have a BSEET degree and my company is about to do a "Reduction in Force" (RIF).  This means that some employees will have to be let go due to the poor economy.  And, of course my position holds the least seniority, even though I have 16 years with the company.

There was a glimmer of hope as it was also announced that my company would be hiring a person for another department in another title.  Only problem is that this new position requires an EE degree.  So, no luck for me.

I recently joined this forum to see if I could network and perhaps find alternative job leads.  I hope I did the right thing.  Although, I still have hope that the RIF never happens as I do have a sizeable retirement built up.

 

Well, anyway, wish me luck.  And, if anyone out there has an EE degree and is interested in working for the USPS.  Just drop me a line.  I know of an opening.

 

Sid723

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